Tuesday,
January 6, 2015
The
Saga of Orci to Lin for Directing Star Trek 13
A
TrekCore exclusive rant now here! Here are my Chimera82405 comments on Star
Trek 13 from when Roberto Orci was fired to when Jason Lin was announced as
director. Enjoy.
This
goes on from May 2014 to January 2015. I am only including my additions to the
topics, including those based on Orci and on Lin and the blow up
Orci
had after this. Ha. The Wrath of Orci. Lol.
Chimera82405
Refit Constitution-Class Starship
Senior Member
496 posts
Location:Bay Area
Posted
15 May 2014 - 03:09 AM
Orci
has done a lot of producer roles according to his imdb. Maybe he will hire on
good writers.
Posted
17 May 2014 - 06:23 PM
Thank
goodness I am not on trekmovie and am not Bob Orci. I was a TNG kid, teen
during the first seasons of TNG, young adult during the later, and into
DS9.
I've seen Paramount methodicallyu make hit and miss decisions including letting
Shatner direct Star Trek V and making a prequel called Enterprise because ooh,
the Star Wars prequels made money.
Now
it's about post Sept. 11 conspiracies, magic blood, black hole time warps and
wrong Khan, and uninspired comic books retreading the classic original. It's
going to be the 50th anniversary. Is Paramount CBS and Hollyweird just trying
to kill it? Nemesis nearly did. They got the wrong script and the wrong
director. Now they're repeating that mistake.
In
hindsight it looks like Orci might be the wrong choice. (Note I had nothing to
do with it, ha). Why just make him the director because he's popular?
That
worked so well for Stewart Baird. Even so, making trash talk about Orci's
foolish and nutty statements on a blog is not helping.
Can't
they just ask Jonathan Frakes or Levar Burton, or even Michael Dorn? I bet
they'd hit it out of the park, given a good script.
Heck
if they wanna go popular and interesting, how about Alphonso Cauron? Bryan
Singer?
And
one of you commented on the JLA movie evidently, because you implied Batman was
going to be in the next movie without saying the JLA movie. And that is gonna
suck too. Zack Snyder should stay away from the JLA movie.
Edited
by Chimera82405
Posted
07 December 2014 - 09:15 PM
I'm
guessing that the draft Orci handed in was totally awful and the suits were
like, oh my God, this will never work! If they're smart in terms of fan service,
the 50th anniversary must be awesome. Awful stories would kill it. They've seen
that Star Wars thing and they're like, Oh, what have we done?
Not
that Abrams really helped with the second one making too much fan service,
imitating TWOK in an unrealistic way. He might have stolen the treatment from
fan boards and said 'let's just have time travel, Shatner, and reboot the
destruction of Vulcan' from what rumor has it. Yeah that would have been intensely
silly, and would have made them no money. The suits want to make money, not run
the story into the ground with even more fan service.
What
Meyer and Bennett did right in the 1980s was to already have been established
at good character development, and also writing action. Even Berman and Braga
for their faults, did keep it going for 18 more years. I give them credit for
that. They knew how to do that, and to get good writers.
The
Okudas are great production art designers but are not scriptwriters or
directors. They create nice visuals.
It
might be a little late in the game to get Garfield and Judith Stevens, unless
it is a Shatner mirror universe movie, which would be fan service, but different.
They're not going there. Neither is the script.
The
Q Gambit comics pretty much do the idea of resetting the Abrams world using Q,
but they will not do that in the movie. Fan films will, but not the studio.
The
studio has seen all the Marvel movies go on with amazing results and want more
action and explosions, and they don't seem to understand the balance between
good dram and good action. If your characters act more like humans, the
audience relates. If they merely go on spout catch phrases from other movies,
it isn't good.
We
here are true fans, not Orci, who really only has head knowledge of Trek and
doesn't understand what Meyer saw immediately (that is in 1980 when he planned
the classic film TWOK). The story (TWOK) needed to be about Kirk, Spock and
McCoy, who are aging now,in the late 40s and early 50s, and TWOK is about
middle age and making a go at adventure. It's not so much about Khan as it is
about the three. Khan is merely the vehicle. He is not the Joker.
He's
the McGuffin. He gives Kirk a reason for being again, McCoy a reason for
helping again, and Spock to discover that humanity sometimes means sacrifice.
The Into Darkenss movie entirely misses this in favor of making it about
griping characters, catch phrases, and showing variations on scenes that out of
context have no meaning. Spock's sacrifice in TWOK made perfect sense. Kirk's
in the new one doesn't because the magic blood brings him back. This is
precisely why Orci is not the man for the job.
They'd
never ask a fan like me to write for the series or direct. Ha. But I, like you,
am a fan who understands something about this universe, the characters, and
that world. Therefore, as another fan guessing, I can come here and give my
opinion also.
Here
is what Paramount should do. They should bring in Manny Coto to write the
script. They should get a guy who understands character and action. Coto is
pretty close to this. He was on Enterprise in the last season. (The Stevens'
could be asked too, but only if Shatner wants to be involved). Maybe it's best
not to have Shatner. Too much explanation.
Then
you get a director that really gets science fiction. Too bad Joss Whedon is
working on Avengers. He'd be perfect. How about Bryan Singer? Well he's working
on X Men.
They
don't want to get Bret Ratner or Joel Schoemaker, or another of those type of
directors.
No,
you want someone with heart who understands characters. Although the Shawn of
the Dead guy does do characters and can do action, he hasn't proven he'd want
to or know how to do Star Trek.
Jonathan
Frakes probably wouldn't do it, but is not a bad choice. For TNG alumnus I
would also include Levar Burton, Michael Dorn and possibly Patrick
Stewart.
(But Patrick is working on X men). They would understand how to do Trek. They
all have done episodes. I call Nemesis a fluke. Baird should stay away. Lol.
What
is Christopher Nolan up to? He does like characters. He's tied up on DC
universe stories, so probably not.
What
is Aphonso Cuaron doing? He might be better. He knows fantasy characters and
action also.
They
have to think what will best bring them money. They can't use grab McG or
Michael Bay or some ridiculous choice like that. They have to find someone at
least interesting in Star Trek.
Maybe
the guy that did Shawn of the Dead won't be a bad choice, but it should not be
a comedy, and not a long cerebral thing either. Moon is a fine movie for what
it is, but the suits want action, and it's not an action movie idea. Balance
the action and the people. Make them believable.
Levar
Burton. Good choice. :)
Would
James Gunn do it?
Edited
by Chimera82405
Orci
Will NOT Direct Trek XIII
Chimera82405
Posted
08 December 2014 - 07:19 PM
Vie,
I agree with you on Alien 3. It was a mess. Both versions. It was like watching
a badly edited video game, a bit like the new video game actually.
They
lacked money so they made the alien a dog at one point, and it attacks this guy
missionary style, so it looks like it's having at him. The audience was
laughing. It was not scary.
Actually
David Fischer might be a possible choice for Star Trek, but he'd have to keep
from those quick cuts and have more character development than he's used to.
When
I mentioned Michael Bay I said no, not him. Don't let him touch Star Trek. He
already decimated Transformers, and his friend turned Turtles into gangsta
versions of those awful jive Autobots from the second Transformers movie. He
almost redeemed himself using a story very much like fan series as the plot for
Transformers 4, but it wasn't that good.
Jonathan
Frakes might be possible, as he knows Trek, but would he make it the Prime
Universe saves the Abrams Universe? Should we go that route? By now Riker
would be an admiral. Would a re imagined butt kicking Titan be in it, and
actually be really freaking big? Great. The giant ship is the good guy.
Maybe
that was their idea. More fan stories come to mind.At
this point Alphonso Cuaron isn't a bad choice, just not a realistic one. They'll
probably get Bret Ratner and it will suck. Hope not though.
The
Okudas weren't involved in the new shows? Well they should be. They would at
least have said the Vengeance doesn't make sense as a design. :)
Star
Trek should not take a break at all. They should launch a TV series. Sign me up
as a consultant. I have no Hollywood experience, but I can write a better
story than the guys who wrote the last two. Ha. I'm used to the Berman and
Braga era so they won't but if they did. Ha.
Edited
by Chimera82405, 08 December 2014 - 07:23 PM.
Posted
09 December 2014 - 08:02 PM
Orci
and his people probably looked over the boards, including this site, and rival
TrekMovie and old Trekweb, and used elements of some of the fan stories as his
script for the film, because as some of you said, he isn't original or clever,
he just knows hot to hack out a script that pleases he suits and seems to be
good. Unfortunately, without Abrams or Kurtzman, who are probably better
writers and have more cash, read influence, he was unable to actually come up with
anything that made sense.
I'll
spoil you with the (rumored) details. This script would have sucked. The studio
knew they had a turkey on their hands from back in August. Khan was going to
come back (with a super weapon), and he was going to get hold of a Vulcan time
machine, which he was going to use to make history happen differently. The
Vulcans were going to use it to restore history by changing the timeline back
to normal, going back to when Nero first appeared and preventing him from
destroying Vulcan, but Khan gets in the way. The universe then is completely
wrecked, so that future Jim Kirk has to go back into time to the five year
mission and help stop Khan from destroying the future. (The last was from a fan
fiction and has been omitted).
The
studio was like, holy cow this is crap. We can't use it. Close it all down.
That was actually months ago in August. They finally realized that he was not
only the wrong choice for script writer, but also director. They're about
making money. Such a fan service convoluted time travel mess would have been
awful. Then he tried to rewrite it so they time travel back to Eugenics Wars,
which happen in this timeline in 2016, and future Khan and past
Khan
and old Shatner are somehow still there. By that time it became such a mess
they just shook their heads and tore up his contract.
(Fan
script was fake, but...) What they ended up with was a reset button episode
where somehow old Kirk and olf Spock return to stop the time machine, this
keeping both universes intact, but sending Spock Prime back to the future.
Yawn.omitted.
The
idea is remarkably similar to some fan comedy films on the net, but Orci being
a hack took it to be a good idea for drama.
Now
you know. Or at least, you know a version of these events (according to rumors
mainly from fans.
*Edited
for clarity as I made it sound like I had inside knowledge, which if I did,
wouldn't leak it. I don't.
Edited
by Chimera82405
Posted
10 December 2014 - 02:43 AM
Just
google Star Trek 3 rumors and you will find most of these stories from my
speculation and dissemination. I should have been more clear that it was a
collection of rumors not spoilers. Sorry.
I'm
thinking the Cumberbatch stuff is actually old and isn't so, and that the Ceti
Alpha stuff was just a fan fiction.
The
accurate story is the Vulcan one, with time travel and the resent button, and
Klingons, as there appears to be more on that. Shatner was going to appear from
another timeline, allegedly. Not sure
how that would have worked. I even came up with an idea how it could, but I
doubt the studio looked at my version, which didn't have Khan in it.
I
am not leaking the script but you can find it if you look for it. I'll edit my
post so it states which is rumor.
I
have gone back and edited out of my first post the ridiculous conjecture and
left the bare idea, time traveling vulcans, reset button, and that other bs
that would have ruined it.
Edited
by Chimera82405, 10 December 2014 - 02:48 AM.
Posted
12 December 2014 - 08:27 PM
Yep,
resetting the timeline ala a convoluted Sept. 11 conspiracy with a bad ass ship
at the end again, was his idea, but the
Khan planet wasn't (that was a fan's guess). They were just going to have Khan
in it. By the time he posts the script, he will have changed it. My sources
indicate though that some of it was guessing, but not that core story. He
wanted to do the second movie yet again, include time travel, Klingons and
Vulcans, and reset the universe in the end. The most amusing speculation was
that in the third one Khan was going to team up with Kirk to stop the bad guy
Klingon. Ha.
Skydiving
through space probably would have happened again, with this time a ship flying
through the Enterprise, as it explodes and careens into the screen..in 3d, but
it turns out to be a dream, and Kirk is really being interrogated (tortured) by
the Klingons to get information. Ha. Then it would have a sideways ending where
none of it happened.
But
the sites speculated on Shatner. I don't think the script bits I found had much
of anything about Shatner really. Those were fan speculations too.
Go
ahead, Orci, complain again to the 'fans' all you like. We're onto you.
Edited
by Chimera82405, 12 December 2014 - 08:29 PM.
Posted
14 December 2014
The
TrekMovie stuff is probably written by one of their own people pretending to be
Orci, so whatever he says is not true. But Orci was probably just planning on
having old Shatner show up and saying 'it's not time travel', which is like his
people in 2012 saying 'it's not Khan'. He got caught on it once. He's not about
to admit it was his bad idea. That script must have been truly awful for the
studio to let him go, and the script. But also Orci does go on blogs and rant.
If it was really him, there wold be a longer post, explaining how we fans are
'all dumb and incapable of understanding the business, and should shut it', or
something.
Maybe
the other rumors about a Sept. 11 script with another villain, another big dark
bad ship, skydiving, and the like, was actually closer, and originally that
villain wasn't Khan. The Shatner story was tossed in there too. So he just
shows up. No explanation. Not time travel. He just walks through the fourth
wall. That's why I doubt seriously this is Orci talking on that twitter, orat
least his boss is telling him say as little as possible.
The
studio wants to make money. Perhaps without Abrams it is no longer possible for
them to make it, and have stopped caring. Hopefully not.
Posted
19 December 2014
I
do hope they pick someone like Wyatt. He would do a good character story with a
good amount of action, and a pace that could work well for Star Trek.
Now
all they need it a script that knocks it out of the park.
Edited
by Chimera82405, 19 December 2014
Posted
24 December 2014 - 12:49 AM
How
can they announce a release date when they tossed out the director and his
script only weeks ago? This must be a rumor. The
new guy is an action director who has not really proven he can do character
stories as well as action.
The
old guard fans are out of the loop here. Paramount could care less about the
50th anniversary, or else it would have been late 2016. Star
Trek is no longer a thinking man's cowboy space opera, and has become a fix for
hyperactive young people. Maybe the studio thinks it will make more money to
have a similar bent.
Release
dates can change. I will look into this and see what I can find out. I think
someone at Variety has jumped ahead without checking. Still
movies released in September do poorly, as one of you. No, December would be
better, right around Christmas in 2 years.
Maybe
they had a backup script. But do not include Shatner just because some fans
want it. The studio will do what sells, not what a few people want.
They
might not make the right choice, but they are running it, so it's their choice.
Posted
28 December 2014 - 08:27 PM
I
tend to agree with the other posters. Shatner and the old cast are just too
darned old. The younger people going to see the new movies aren't going to have
the nostalgia we'd have for the characters. Sure I'd go for a Shatner inspired
appearance, but they're not selling the brand to me. They'd lose their butts if
they marketed it to middle aged fans, or even older ones, who don't like
hyperactive stories so much.
What
some other posters have suggested, put Star Trek back on TV, perhaps a TNG
miniseries event, and closure, but don't just do a Shatner cameo because some
are still butt hurt over Generations. As one of ya said, get over it! It's
canon, He's dead in the other timeline. Sure they could say it's a new one, but
then it would confuse all those hyper teenagers who wouldn't believe it.
Did
you see Shatner as Kirk as the Oscars about 2 years ago? He looked really
dreadful and extremely long in the tooth. Actually
the Boston Legal fans might go to see it more than Star Trek fans would.
"Denny
Crane is in it!" They'd say.
But
they won't go there.
Posted
30 December 2014 - 08:21 PM
How
about CBS and Paramount compromise. They can have their possibly final Bad
Robot movie and that timeline. It's the 50th anniversary, so give the fans a 2
hour movie retrospective special on TV will all the surviving cast, best
episodes clips, no real new content there. They just get all of the cast in a
big theater somewhere and let them comment on how Star Trek has changed the
world, like they did for the 25th and 30th.
The Captains was just the captains.
No, everyone. Two hours. And at the close they announce a new Star Trek series
is to be launched in 2017 which will take place about 30 years after TNG but be
in another part of the frontier. It would be essentially a reboot but have new
people, a new ship, new adventures, good thinking stories, good adventures, and
have fan interaction. We likely won't get that kind of holiday gift, but we fans
deserve it. The special would be directed by Jonathan Frakes or Levar Burton,
who could both handle specials. The new content would be discussions with the
surviving cast. Then at the end they would spend 10 minutes on introducing the
new show. The new cast would not step onto stage, but would be featured in a trailer
that looks awesome. The fiftieth closes.
Edited
by Chimera82405, 30 December 2014 - 08:24 PM.
Posted
02 January 2015
I
didn't mention the cell phone, hypospray, or parables. Ya seem to harping on
the nuances of a few things fans know, but that the general younger populace
doesn't. The Captains was actually a good retrospective idea. Yes you could
have YouTube clips from years ago also. Maybe this thing could be on Netflix.
Maybe
reviewing and seeing the surviving cast might bore some of the fans, while
others would be disappointed because Q no longer looks middle aged, and has
turned into an old man, or Shatner looks really, really old. But they need to
see it. The fans need to see Brent Spiner looking his age. Sure it ends some of
the mystery of how people have aged, but ultimately it's a reunion that I was
going for. The old cast reunites like on the box set commentaries and we see
them again.
The
reason there wasn't much mention of the old Dr Who is most of it was lost. They
saved the audio from some of it. Many of the actors have likely died. I'm not
into that but it seems that is what happened. They would have called in
classixmembers if they could have. Or they decided it would be too confusing,
there having been several Doctors.
A
new series and new merchandising to go with it would be ideal, but if the
studio picks another bad director we're looking at Nemesis part two. Maybe Lin
will be surprising. Maybe he can quote Shakespeare. I dunno.
The
point of doing a reunion story is to sit down with old friends from years of
Star Trek and see them on one more ride. The 30th did it pretty good. They
tied in to DS9 and Voyager. They have no new series currently though.
Also
Paramount needs to increase their game, but not by stealing Marvel pots or
being more like DC, but by actually makking a new series with excellent writers,
and making quality action figures, models and toys. If they've learned anything
from Disney, and Marvel, toys in stores also bring younger people into see the
movie, making new fans. Star Wars toys since the prequels have never stopped,
even though there were no new movies since 2005, and a cartoon show off and on
since. You can still go to any toy store and buy a Luke Skywalker and he hasn't
been in a movie since the classic, and he's not in the cartoon which was a
prequel. Anakin was.
Star
Trek needs to get off its butt and do something! They should not remake Marvel
movies.
I
don't ask for a hokey boring tech story on how they invented cellphones, but a
classy and fun reunion of all the cast, having a chat an remembering what it
was like. The cellphone thing is like a 3 minute thing, or less. They could
even make it a gag.
The
retrospective of it's 90 minutes of air time, for commercial breaks, would
really only bring up Classic trek for 15 minutes anyway, as they have all the
other series to cover, and their impact.
This
wouldn't even be all that expensive. Then they could launch the new show. Hasbro
wimped out on the toys for ID so go back to Playmates and reintroduce all the
star treek figures, special new ones, models, etc. They'd have to do a new
series also.
They
won't do these things becuse the studio doesn't care that there's a 50th
anniversary. The
Dr Who one worked because the studio actually cares.
Posted
04 January 2015
So
when has Hollywood truly understood the fans of Star Trek? Probably not since
the hayday of the mid 1990s.
